SAFER Monthly Meeting - August 2015

SAFER Meeting Minutes

August 21, 2015

SAFER Board Attendees:  President Fortman, VP Weise, Carey,  Seely,  Lloyd , Quinn, Wilkerson, Snyder

Carlsbad Fire Department

Safety Training Center

5750 Orion Way,

Carlsbad, CA

Mike Davis – Fire Chief


0940    Meeting called to order – President Ells Fortman

Thanks to FIRE ETC for breakfast hospitality, and Lion -  AllStar for lunch.

SAFER email :, twitter, facebook etc.

President Fortman opened the meeting by introducing Deputy Chief Mike Lopez who welcomed SAFER to Carlsbad and lead the flag salute and moment of silence. Chief Lopez briefed the attendees on the “Safety Training Center” and some of the particulars of the Carlsbad Fire Department. (11000 calls a year / 85% medical, 6 stations, 83 sworn personnel). Chief Lopez related the training facility cost $14 million dollars to build and it’s made the Carlsbad firefighters, police and public employees better.

Chief Lopez thanked the fire service attendees for their service and the venders for their contribution to firefighter safety through PPE improvement(s) and safety product development and support.

Chief Lopez congratulated Deputy Chief Jeff Wilkerson (MCP) on his retirement and thanked him for 38 years of service to the fire service. The group joined with a standing ovation to Chief Wilkerson. 

Chief Lopez introduced Battalion Chief Jeff Chumbley who would present the program.


Poinsettia Fire – July 14, 2014

                        Battalion Chief  Jeff Chumbley –  Carlsbad  Fire Department

On May 14, 2014, at approximately 10:34 am, the Poinsettia Fire ignited in Carlsbad burning nearly 400 acres and destroyed several structures. BC Chumbley related the initial actions and resource profile utilized on the incident. He described how other active incidents in the region impacted this incident and how other area command officers (including area Fire Chiefs) assisted in the management of the incident. He reviewed the Incident Organizational Chart and discussed lessoned learned for future incidents including assigning a Safety Officer sooner in the incident. Chief Chumbley discussed the concepts of “Fire Front Following”, “Anchor and Hold” and “Transitional Attack” tactics as they are employed on “urban Interface” incidents. He related the difficulty with communications as the incident grew – necessity to move to dedicated frequencies and radio systems (800Mhz vs. VHF). Chief Lopez discussed the importance of developing FMAG application and support documentation to support the financial dimensions of these types of incidents. Incident was an LAR (Local Area Resource) fire so the usual support that occurs with other large incidents that enjoy support of the various “IMT’s (Incident Management Team(s) was not available / applicable.

A Commercial Fire (Sound-Eklin) occurred during this UI fire and the responding firefighters saved the companies “data” from their building by removing the computers / records which ultimately saved the company’s future.    

Critical Factors:

  1. 2% fine fuel moisture

  2. 100% Probability of flame capture

  3. 446 Chains(29,436 feet) / hour

  4. 5.58 MPH

Lessons learned:

  1. Red Flag conditions / Wildland Response

  2. Leader’s intent vs. Independent action.

  3. FD/PD Unified Command

  4. Equipment prepared for Urban Interface / Wildland response

  5. Power lines SDG&E

  6. Air Support – VLAT / Air Attack / Rotor and fixed Wing

  7. Full CDF Wildland Response

  8. “No Divert” on air assets when lives are at risk

  9.  Driving into heavy smoke

  10. Position Qualification’s (STL / Engine Boss / DIVS)

  11. Limited resources due to other active incidents

  12. Local resource depletion (Vista Fire)

  13. EOC Opened:

  1. Logistics Support

  2. Base Campo Support

  3. PIO

  4. Mapping

  5. IAP

  1. Base Camp:

  1. Releasing Resources

  2. Relief of Existing crews

  3. Contingency plans for incident resource needs

  1. Salvage and Overhaul of personal effects of residents / businesses




Business Meeting:


OSHA Update: Scott Hudson – Absent. Scott Quin related LAFD is averaging 1 injury / month. He recommends a heat “Risk Assessment” be included in your departments Risk Documents. Ells related the person responsible for reporting to OSHA needs to be notified in a timely manner to meet the 24 hour reporting requirement and avoid large penalties. LACofd related the death of a Lifeguard who died while pool testing.

NFPA update: Dick Weise – LACoFD - began discussing NFPA 1977 regarding wildland helmets, destructive testing and vented helmets, fire shelter industry variances in materials, designs and weight. (15-18 options available). Discussed the SCAM document (NFPA 1854)  for wildland PPE and the pro’s and con’s (single layering)., Cleaning/Contaminates: Biological and Chemical with regards to disinfection/cleaning. Update on Fire Protection Research Foundation (funding, and PPE Cleaning)

DRD. Drag Rescue Device Survey report for Public Input. Chemical List, revision/update list regarding addition/deletion and hydraulic fluid(s) (Phosphors ester) effects on moisture barriers. Survey produced well over 1700 responses and mobile ISP’s Carbon Monoxide Study for firefighters for low level, long term effects and high levels in short term.  UCLA and St Joseph Hospital to study effects regarding respiratory, cardiac, stroke, and deep vein thrombosis related to CO exposure.

LACoFD is now transitioning to single layer wildland PPE, webgear being redesigned with FR material by Mystery Ranch Manufacturing. Hydration standard is being developed for consideration as a Health and Safety mandate , 1854 SCAM Doc for wildland. New STIHL chainsaws are being developed with injection instead of chainsaw. “Motomix” comes pre-mixed for 2-cycle fuel. Has better characteristics than the gasoline being proposed for CA (Ethanol additives). Gloves being studied for protective characteristics. When fire room is pressurized many contaminates enter our crews bodies through their skin via porous PPE at hood, neck, wrists and around the waist. A new moisture barrier is being developed to better isolate our crews from toxins at those locations.

Apparatus update: Tim – Absent. Ells related LAFD took possession of several KME triples that have selected NFPA standard deficits. Narrow captains seat area, rough engine cowling etc. The new units weren’t ordered with exhaust that connects to PlyMoVent Exhaust removal systems. 

Vendor update - Lazaro Martinez discussed the recent sales activity and three dimensional glove product.


Treasures Report: Steven Lloyd presented the treasures report. Approximately $2400 in reserves. Discussed recent dues contributions from website.


Open Forum and Round Table:

Scott - Ventura County: Discussed “Peck Fire” MTZ (Multiple Threat Zone) Vehicle over the side starting a brush fire. LACofd, LAFD and Ventura County responded with Copter 19. Victim crawled into a tunnel / pipe under the freeway till fire burned over. OSHA experience: a tree trimmer death caused by palm fronds caused the agency to make a Cal-OSHA notification. Related an injury to a crew member while climbing over a fence with a ground ladder that resulted in serious leg fracture. Mission Incident investigation has made seven arrests relating to illegal storage of hazardous materials. Two rigs were exposed to hazardous chemicals and will not be cleaned / sanitized to allow return to service.

Jim Evans – Citro Squeeze – Introduced a new specialist (Gabriel Flores) who knows the pump systems used in extractor washing machines. Related California is drafting a standard based on the provisions in NFPA 1851 as Texas has done. Will likely impact budget requirements for PPE going forward.   

San Diego City

Steve Lloyd – Torrance

Santa Barabara – Ed  

Peggy Curtice – Fire-Dex – Related a three dimensional glove

Russ Snyder ORCO Fire – Just Promoted 19 engineers, new academy class graduating next week. Expecing a rash of Santa Ana Guys to retire next year which will necessitate additional hiring.

Gabriel Flores – Pump expert that supports 1851 extractor units

Scott McKensy – Steadfast moisture technologies – Working with local depts. To develop/ support hoods etc.

Andy Spear Carlsbad FD – Thanked SAFER for coming to Carlsbad Safety Trng Cntr, 9 guys on probation, have numerous members assigned to incidents statewide. FS remodel under way.

John Nelson – Lion Uniforms – Related they have a tri-certified pant, will be promoting a multi bio uniform in the near future

Michele – Lion Related they’re promoting a new glove.

Dick Weise – LACoFD – Related they will be starting a recruit class next month. Related KME lost the FDNY contract and is spreading the loss across all future sales. LACoFD will be going out to bid on future apparatus purchases.

Lazaro Martinez – AllStar Fire Equipment – Related a project to have “pods” designed for specific risks (mass casualty, chem / bio) distributed throughout the area/region/ state. Could be rapidly deployed to specific incidents with need upon request.

Stuart – SCOTT Safety – Introduced “Rescue belt” feature now available on SCOTT SCBA’s. Has a life safety rated belt strap. Related SCOTT bought ISG Infra-red cameras which will be the camera they develop and market in-house. Introduced a blue-tooth interfaced intercom for “crew com” and voice amplification. Radio (Incident comm) also interfaces to allow better communication with other resources.

Al Brewer - LACOFD – Tower classes being planned for “overlapping” recruit towers. Has a new female / civilian “Chief Officer”.  Investigating a serious accident incident where a crew fell through a roof and a helicopter hard landing near whittier hills during the recent fire in Montebello.

ScottQuinn – LAFD – Relating he was listening to the Mission Incident while driving in. Has a new class of recruits 43 that graduated yesterday. They remain 28 companies down, expect more hiring as they have an increased budget this year. Had an incident with a recruit that suffered the RHABDOMYOLOSIS illness.

Live fire program is still off pending development of new standards / controls. Lots of new construction projects underway in LA.

Ells – LAFD – Had several guys transported from Stations to local hospitals for chest pain. One was fairly minor, but one 31 year old had a serious heart condition –  took to a “not the closest” hospital at the request of the patient. Ells related it would be best to always follow the established operational standards when staff has emergency situations involving “our own” as the firefighter was in very serious condition on arrival at the emergency room.  Discussed “poaching” across jurisdictional lines.  Related a recent fire incident with trapped occupants.

SAFER : ORCO Fire Authority – next meeting, Dues will be solicited to support committee travel / participation and business costs (Website etc.)

LAFD Scott Quinn

All venders provided current particulars of their product lines and services.

Meeting Adjourned , next meeting September 18th, 2015 at Orange County Fire Authority.



Vender’s, Manufacture’s and Consultants represented at this meeting:


Ed Shabro – Sales Representative   L.N. Curtis & Sons

16821 Knott Ave.

La Mirada, CA 90638

Phone (323) 780-0254

Toll Free (866) 557-0254

Cell (760) 250-1180


Scott Estrada – Vice President   FIRE ETC

2190 Main Street

San Diego, CA 92113

Phone (619) 525-7286

Cell (619) 4033442



Stuart Lovi -  Regional Manager, SCOTT Health and Safety

(626) 241-0093

(626) 205-2158


Jay Terry   Terry’s Canvas

2925 Palomino Court

Ontario, CA 91761

Phone (909) 947-7998


Eric l. Higgins – Vice President    Bestway Laundry Solutions – UniMac Sales and Service

1035 E. Third Street

Corona, CA92879

Phone (800) 542-6166 ext204

Cell (951) 532-7700


Michelle Trout – CBRN Technical Specialist    LION Uniforms

7200 Poe Street – Suite 400

Dayton, Ohio45414

(480) 225-1324


Jon Nelson - CBRN Technical Specialist    LION Uniforms

7200 Poe Street – Suite 400

Dayton, Ohio45414

(509) 994-7055


Gabriel Flores-  Regional Sales Manager, Western U.S. - SEKO Dosing Systems Corp.

1103 Branagan Drive

Bristol, PA19007

Phone (866) 740-7623



Scott Mackenzie- Business Development Manager-  STEDFAST USA Inc.

Cell (602) 549-5817

Toll Free (888) 673-8841

6989 West Grovers Ave.

Glendale, AZ 85308


Gabriel Flores- Chemical & Dosing Systems Consultant-  AFChemical

(209) 840-3860

1570 East F Street-  Suite A-156

Oakdale, CA95361


Frank Uram- President  -  Quala-Tel Communications

Tel (858) 577-2900

Fax (858) 693-4109

Toll Free (800) 442-1504

Cell (858) 945-1659

9925 Business Park Avenue- Suite A

San Diego, CA92131-1171